Hang on to your hats, folks. Dr. Brooke Bowman and I cover a range of issues that equine veterinarians face – everything from racetrack practice to alternative work schedules to boundaries with clients and back around to mental illness. We also touch on racing cars and hanging out at Tootsie’s Honkeytonk, so be prepared for a rowdy conversation!
***Trigger Warning: This podcast does discuss mental illness and suicide at times throughout the episode.***
Meet Dr. Bowman…
Brooke Bowman DVM
Find him on Instagram @bcbowman12
Stacey Cordivano 0:07 Hey there, it’s Dr. Stacey Cordivano. I want veterinarians to learn to be happier, healthier, wealthier and more grateful for the life that we’ve created. On this podcast I will speak with outside of the box thinkers to hear new ideas on ways to improve our day to day life. Welcome to the whole veterinarian. Stacey Cordivano 0:36 Alrighty, friends, prepare yourself for this episode. Today I’m joined by Dr. Brooke Bowman, a second generation equine veterinarian from Chesapeake City, Maryland. We cover everything from racetrack practice to mental illness to changing the equine practice paradigm. Brooke does not hold back and offers a unique perspective on some of the issues that we equine vets face every day. Here’s a little bit more about Dr. Bowman. He’s a 2010 graduate of Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine. He has two beautiful and funny children. He says that his mom and dad are his heroes, and he believes in the power of good rap music. He and I discussed his desire to host an equine vet storytelling podcast, so let’s hold him to that because I for one cannot wait to listen. His motto is Life is good. Let’s get it. So without further ado, let’s get into this episode. Stacey Cordivano 1:31 Hi, Brooke. Thanks for sitting down to chat with me today. How are you? Brooke Bowman 1:35 I’m great. Thanks for having me. Stacey Cordivano 1:37 Sure. Well, we got connected through a mutual friend. And it was kind of because you have this awesome new idea for an equine vet podcast. But I want to get into that later. I want you to tell people a little bit about yourself first, please. Brooke Bowman 1:54 Alright, well, I’m a second generation equine vet. I grew up on a thoroughbred breeding operation that my family owns. So I’ve been immersed in the thoroughbred world since I was a little kid, which has been quite eye opening over the past, like five years or so. When I say immersed, I was immersed in the breeding side. We don’t race many of our own. So I never really saw the behind the scenes. Shit that goes on in the race track scene and all that. So that’s been a tough thing for me to process over the past five years or so just like, I’m glad I know. But I wish I’d never knew sort of a feeling with like a lot of the stuff that goes on. Stacey Cordivano 2:37 So are you doing Sorry to interrupt? Are you doing more backside work now? Or how did you Brooke Bowman 2:42 I try to not do any of it. I do private thoroughbred training facility. But I mean, I know everybody says this, but we don’t get into that nonsense. Like I mean, Stacey Cordivano 2:51 yeah, I was trying to figure out how you got the new perspective. Brooke Bowman 2:56 It was kind of an evolution really. Oh, when I got on a school, I was actually approached about working on the backside of Laurel Park. I went to do an externship My father’s a big in the thoroughbred breeding industry in Maryland. So I kind of had an in there. And I first morning I was like, This is not what I want to do. I mean, it’s not really. I went to vet school because I love the horses. Like I grew up with the foals and stuff. I love the horses. That’s like a big, big thing for me. And that was not vet medicine that was pushing drugs. I mean, that’s all they’re doing. And I don’t even mean that in a bad way. Because if I know it’s easy to judge that situation, but also, the reality is it’s the only way those vets get paid. I mean, if you want to put food on your table, you drive around giving shots all day. I mean, that’s what nobody wants you to do a lameness exam. If they do they want you they’ll like, give you crap about charging for it. Literally, I got shit from a trainer at Delaware Park for charging $40 To do a lameness exam on a horse. And he called me and said, in 35 years, he’s never been charged for a lameness exam. And that’s not how things work. And I said, Okay, well, we don’t need to work together. And we don’t. Stacey Cordivano 4:19 So, yeah, it’s a different it’s a different lifestyle. Yeah, for sure. Brooke Bowman 4:23 It is a strange culture. But it’s not entirely anyone’s fault. In particular, it’s just the whole industries fault, honestly. And it’s been strange to watch and have discussions with vets on the backside and they don’t know what literally don’t know how to change things or what else to do. Some of them are just straight up shady, but for the most part, they’re not just like you can imagine. But it’s a tough thing to change because the whole industry expects that how to be how it is, at least around here from what I’ve seen. So long story short, I do not do much better. side work, I love the athletic side of things. That’s why I do the sports medicine stuff. But once you go to the track, it’s like a different team. Like if you’re going to somebody private operation, I feel like the conversations are different. Just the whole approach can be different. That’s how I feel anyway. Stacey Cordivano 5:19 Gotcha. And where did you go to vet school? When did you graduate? Brooke Bowman 5:22 Ross? I graduated in 2010. Stacey Cordivano 5:26 Okay. And you had a career before that? Yes? Is that Brooke Bowman 5:31 I, I don’t know if career is the right word. But I, I definitely spent time doing other things before I went to school. Not entirely by choice, but my grades in college were suspect at best. And I have a very bad issue with adrenaline. So I raced cars for like, three years, four years. And while I was doing that, I was just trying to figure out what to do, basically. I love the farms. So I wanted to do something with my family’s farms. But just mowing lawns and mucking stalls clearly wasn’t going to help them sustain themselves. So I had a bad year of racing, my last year of racing cars I got, I mean, I got knocked out in a wreck, I just things weren’t going well. It just wasn’t the same fun feel. And that’s what we were in it for. And I just, it just started to make me think about other things. And I literally went up to my parents by their pool, and was like, Hey, if you weren’t a veterinarian, dad, but this place function? And the answer was 100%. No. So I decided to go to vet school that day. And I went and met with the head of admissions at UPenn. I had met him on through the like, over the phone through a mutual friend. And I was totally surprised when he was like, yeah, come up, like, you know, bring your bring your transcripts and stuff and come up and meet. And I was like, shit, okay, so I went up there. And he gave me a tour, we sat down, and I showed him my grades, which were, I mean, not impressive. And he told me, I could go to grad school, that just to take take some graduate level courses to prove that I can get good grades. And I had like a total idiot, not even process that there was a application deadline involved here. And I had just missed the application deadline. So I literally was two years away from possibly going to vet school in the United States, because I would have had to wait the next year to apply, then hopefully get in and start the following year. So he said, or you could just go to the islands, their curriculums like the same at Ross. And I had never heard of that before. So that was in October of 2006. And I was living in the Caribbean in April in 2007. Stacey Cordivano 8:13 I… I feel like you can handle this question, even though I don’t know you very well. Brooke Bowman 8:19 Okay. Haha. Stacey Cordivano 8:20 I don’t know if it’s a question or statement, but I had to put it out there a little bit like, I feel like we have to recognize that you are coming from a pretty privileged, privileged. your race, your sex your Yes. So. Yeah, I don’t know what my question. I just want to acknowledge that that like may not work out for everybody else. Right? Brooke Bowman 8:43 100%. Yeah. I mean, I it’s not lost on me that I’m from a privileged place. i It also though, it might not be as privileged, as you would imagine. I’ll put it that way. Like my my father and mother both came from nothing. Stacey Cordivano 8:58 Oh, sure. And I’m sure that working with a parent. I mean, I know from my husband that working with a parent is very difficult. Like I’m not saying challenges. I’m I just feel like it needs to be acknowledged just so that we can like move on with the rest of the conversation. Brooke Bowman 9:14 Oh, yeah. Most kids don’t get bad grades in college and then race cars for four years. Yeah, I’m well aware. Stacey Cordivano 9:22 Okay, all right. Okay, cool. So when we talked earlier briefly, we both kind of agreed that AAEP felt really different this year, and kind of exciting that maybe there were some changes afoot. So I just wanted to get your opinion on that before we kind of dig into more into your story. Brooke Bowman 9:39 Okay, so, AAEP was a very different feel for me, for a number of reasons. One, because I what I’ve just personally been through this year, which again, I don’t I’m not saying it’s worse than anybody else’s situation. And I realize I’m a privileged kid and I got a guy and I I have the means to go to counseling and all that stuff and everything. But I, at the same time, I still literally almost put a bullet in my head in May. So I like had a different perspective going down there. I wasn’t just going there to party and mess around. I wanted to really connect with try to connect with people and stuff. And I did. And also at the same time, there’s, of course, the huge elephant in the room that no one wants to do what we do. Brooke Bowman 10:28 And everyone dances around why? And of course, the answer is right in front of us. Every day, we wake up, like every day, every Sunday night, I get texts from horse, people that think they’re scratch on a pastor and is like, an emergency for everyone at 8pm on Sunday, when I got my kids and I’m hanging out, you know, and what do we do we answer the text, you know, because that’s what we’ve been, as equine vets like are, like brainwashed into thinking we need to do and if we don’t, someone else is going to do it. And you know what, if someone else wants to do it with their kids at 8pm on Sunday, then they can but the other side is, no one wants to do it. So no one else is gonna do it. You know? And I know I’m just kind of talking in circles. But it’s a it’s a strange thing in our world. We’ve just been so prepped to be like, well, you signed up for this. And this is how it is. And well, why don’t we just change how it is? You know? And I think from just seeing some of the things that you do on Instagram, obviously you get some of that, right? I mean, you understand that. It can be different. It doesn’t have to be a 24/7 on call, just getting badgered not sleeping. I mean, I’ve been speaking with a number of my friends that weren’t at AEP, and I contacted them. And they’re like, Yeah, I stopped doing equine. And the answers like the same as what we’re talking about why? Because I make four times more money now. I work five days a week, I had a conversation with my wife or husband. And we talked about what’s important here, and it’s our kids, it’s ourselves. And we can do what we love to do differently, and be more profitable, and not have to answer the phone all the time and just get distracted on what life’s supposed to be. And it was just interesting hearing these conversations. And I can relate. Because I mean, I’ve been through the, you know, so married to my job instead of married to the person I was married to, you know, I’ve done that. And would it have changed the outcome if I was in a difference? Like if I was a small animal that probably not but it certainly didn’t help. And I remember being so busy. I had a babysitter while I was home. I had like i we i was married at the time. And I had a babysitter come while I was home because I would leave so much. And I thought that’s how life was supposed to be. That’s it. Like I mean, this is what I do. This is what I’m good at, you know, like, this is what is supposed to happen. It felt good, because that’s what I was supposed to do. But then you realize you’re not seeing your kids. Your relationships going to hell. Yeah, you’re I was doing fine financially. And I still am. But like, I was doing fine with a business was doing great, of course, but also, then there’s 20% of the clients aren’t paying you while you’re busting your ass. And like, so what’s the point? Let’s like change the wheel here a little bit. Like so there has to be a different way to do this. And we it’s kind of been forced to change. Anyway, like it was kind of a blessing in disguise. I mean, people just are not breeding horses anymore. I mean, it’s kind of like the students not coming into our industry. The people who are breeding horses at least thoroughbreds anyway. It’s the same thing. There’s no one knew coming like no one. I mean, I’m the probably the youngest person around that breeds thoroughbred horses. I’m 42 and I breed thoroughbreds and love it. But I’m the end of my family line to my kids aren’t doing it. I already know that. One of my sisters is very involved. Her kids aren’t doing it. My father’s 79 And I can literally list all the other big breeders in the state of Maryland anyway. It’s the same situation. It’s like 70 year old people with no one coming behind them. So yeah, it’s kind of naturally changing, which is good. I mean, I like it. I think that’s having 130 foals for five years ago was very terrible. I mean, it was not fun at all. I was out there for 100 of the fallings I remember almost passing out twice checking mirrors in the morning. Because I’ve been up all night. And, you know, so then life sucks. So you start drinking a little bit, then drinking too much then making excuses. But like, I’m not drinking all day. So it’s fine, you know, but like, it was a crutch for sure. So there I mean, there’s been like, a lot of good change to the industry changing. It’s like, it’s fine with me. It’s it’s an unhealthy thing for our industry as that, and the racing industry anyway, is extremely unhealthy. It’s fixing itself right now. I mean, it’s nobody’s breeding horses, we’re gonna have the least amount of thoroughbred foals since 1965. I think there’s something in the country coming up here. And I mean, everyone’s screaming at the top of their lungs. We don’t like how this is going. And a lot of people aren’t listening. And but the same things happening with the equine vet industry. People are having these meetings at the AEP thing. And I’m like, well, we don’t need to ask ourselves what’s wrong? We already know the answers. Like we’re all pretending like we don’t know the answers. We can work four days a week, make more money, and don’t go out in the cold, never get calls after 5pm. And all we got to do is look to our left and right at our friends that were in that school that work in small animal. I mean, do they have issues too? Absolutely. But again, the strain on having a life is just a very different strain, though. I mean, it’s a different level, Stacey Cordivano 16:34 for sure. Right. And like, we know that getting into it, right? Like we like horses enough that we are going to accept some challenges. And I want to I mean, obviously, this is my jam, I want to get into talking with you about like your suggestions for making equine practice, you know, more sustainable. But I do want to hear you mentioned a couple times that you had kind of decline and then potentially a very rough year last year, so I want to hear a little bit more about your personal story. If you’re willing to share. Unknown Speaker 17:06 I can give what I think led to it, I don’t think I fully know honestly. But um, I mean, I think depressed is just like a very overused word. But I don’t know any other word to use. So I think I was fairly depressed, probably, since I was a teenager, and never knew. Like, I used to be a very shy person all through college. I was extremely shy person. And I really didn’t start to feel like confident in myself until I started racing cars and doing well. And it was like, a different outside the box thing for me that I was good at. And, and it’s scary. Like, it’s cool. You know, I always wanted to do it. And I did it. And I did well. So I kind of gain confidence then. But it was so weird. Like I thought I was confident. But I was just confident in this weird like bravado way, not like, deep, I really felt good about myself sort of thing. And then shortly after that I go to vet school is the first time I had ever applied myself to something. And I mean, I nailed it. I graduated with highest honors. And I felt so good about that, too. And I mean, I had a job right out of school, I kind of thought I had everything lined up. I was married, you know, and we had a couple kids and all and everything and our business was just booming. And we’re like thinking we got everything lined up. Meanwhile, the whole time. I never really I had never addressed anything that I was insecure about. Since I was a teenager, I guess. And a lot of those things, oddly crept up, I started to not feel good about myself. And then with like, marriage struggles and stuff that kind of reinforced, like, why can’t I keep things together? You know, I got all these things going for me, but I can’t keep the most important things in my life together. And you feel like a complete failure. You know, even though you’re a success, uh, you at the same time feel like a failure. I did anyway, I can’t I don’t know how anyone else feels. But it seems like other people have the same similar things happen in their life. It might not be marriage, but you know, they do so well. And certain things and then in other things just totally feel like you don’t understand how you can screw up that bad, you know, and that’s kind of how I was feeling and then you know, you I went through a divorce that, you know, it’s just, it sucks. There’s no other way to put it. Even if it’s like a smooth one. It just absolutely sucks and I like to beautiful kids. And she’s a great woman too. It’s just didn’t work, you know, but it just sucked like trying to figure out how to see yourself Kids half the time instead of coming home and like they’re there to give you a hug when you show up like that on that has not happened since 2018. I’ve never shown up and my kids are like in the house, like giving me a hug, like, Hey, Daddy, like your home, you know, I don’t get that anymore. So that was a very weird thing to process, and then started dating again, and kind of thought that was going to be the rest of life, and it just didn’t work. And that, that wasn’t really the full reason I kind of fell off a cliff. But it was just another thing, right? I mean, it was like, so now I don’t fully know how finances are gonna go because now I’m divorced, I don’t know what my child support payments gonna be. I don’t know how like, division of assets is going to go, I was just very scared about so many things in my life, then I had a good relationship I thought and then that kind of deteriorate. It didn’t kind of it deteriorated. And again, great human being. But it just, I was in such a bad place. It never could work even like if we had worked out our issues, my issues were so like I was in such a weird place last spring, I was just wearing myself out from being so scared of every turn in my life. I like was the heaviest I’ve ever been in my life. I just felt like dirt. So I, I just got to this point where I’m like, literally laying on my floor, not working, bawling my eyes out. I didn’t know that I was having anxiety attacks because I had never felt one before. And it was such a weird situation to be an intelligent person, you got to two beautiful kids, I live on a farm that my family owns, that is paid for. I have a job that like I’m successful and good at and I’m healthy, my kids are healthy, most of my family is healthy. And here I am laying on the floor and don’t know how to get out of my own way. And knowing that that is not okay, and still don’t have an idea what to do. I mean, it was such a weird place to be. And I literally felt like I was surrounded by a poll. And I could not get out like I was just in a black hole. And I could not figure out what the hell to do. And, you know, one of the easiest options seemed like to just end it. I mean, I just felt like, there’s no way my kids want to be around me like this. Clearly, the like, woman I was dating doesn’t want to be around me like this. This is just how I felt like I can’t speak for her. I don’t want to be unfair. I’m not trying to be unfair and speak for her. But like, that’s just how I felt. And I felt like a failure to my family. Because I’m laying on my floor instead of working. They’re all worried as hell about me. So then I feel guilty for making everyone worry. It was just a vicious cycle. And my sister actually helped me a bunch, you know, I’m the youngest of five, and she’s the second oldest sibling. So she’s just been through more life than I have. So she was able to help me through just a bunch of things. And then my therapist helped me Of course, like immensely. And then what I didn’t realize then is basically you end up just helping yourself. And I went from feeling like I was in a hole to feeling like I was 100 miles above it. Like I had escaped that far. And it was literally in a couple of days time. Like I was at my lowest low and felt like this weird high, like I was in this different level. And it was kind of an odd thing, because then I couldn’t control that. Like I was like, you’re trying to harness that now. And then people aren’t prepared to hear you go from zero to 100 No, it’s just the weirdest situation. But um, I don’t know, that’s how I got out of it was basically just starting to be comfortable talking about it. And once I started to feel comfortable talking about it, then you could start talking to yourself about it. And, you know, pointing those things out to yourself. Like look at your kids, man. They’re beautiful. Like you got so much positive stuff going on in your life and your focus so hard on these negatives that aren’t that negative, you know, I mean, none of it is a debilitating sickness. What am I buried in this hole for? It’s been a very eye opening such a fulfilling experience that I thought once I started talking to people at AAEP, I was like, Man, I’m not the only one. I mean, there’s a lot of people that have been through this, I mean, clearly, right? We the suicide rate in our profession is off the screen. So for some reason, I have the gift of making people laugh, and and people are comfortable talking to me. So how can I use that gift, and there was a few podcasts over the summer that I used to listen to. And I was like, man, it was so nice hearing people talk about their life. And these are like, anywhere from literally chefs to professional athletes talking about the same stuff I went through, you know, like, how relatable is that it’s so cool to be able to, at a human core level relate with somebody that you’ve never met, that you’ve never, like, had a relationship with, didn’t know their name before you heard them talking about their life story, but you connect with that. And it helps to hear other people have those similar issues, and be brave enough to talk about it. And so I started talking to people about whether they would talk about their stories and things. And more often than not, the answer was absolutely, that’s a great idea. So that’s where the podcast idea came up. Stacey Cordivano 26:20 Yeah, it’s a great one. And I’m sure that your story’s gonna resonate with people. And I thank you for sharing. I mean, the mental illness struggle is confusing and very common, especially for us in our profession. And, and I agree, I think the more we talk about it, the easier it is for other people to talk about for sure. Yeah, I want to circle back to things that equine vets can do differently. You know, working in a family setting, like allows you some control that some people may not have. But yeah, solo practitioners certainly have it. And that’s like, where I come from, right? It took my kids forcing me to realize that I was just like, giving way too much to clients. I feel like it does take everyone some things to kind of stop them in their tracks. I had the privilege of being the boss and like changing that. But what do you think that any veterinarian can start doing for themselves to sort of advocate for a better lifestyle? Unknown Speaker 27:22 Oh, well, I think that’s a hard question to answer. And the reason is, part of the reason is what you just said, not everyone is in our place where they’re their own boss, I don’t know how I would do this. If I worked for, like, if I worked for my family. Even if I wasn’t a family member, I would be like, What am I going to do? Like, I can’t change anything that’s going on here. Like I would feel like I was trapped, you know, but I know there are practices, changing their approach. And one of the reasons I know that is from AAEP, I was asking people, literally just how many days a week do you work? You know, how many days a week are you on call and you know, the answers six or seven days, almost everybody was like either six days a week if they work for somebody, and if they work for themselves, seven days a week, until the last night I was there. I was at tootsies, which is like, not normally a place for great ideas to happen. And Stacey Cordivano 28:25 I dunno…I wonder how many ideas have come out of Tootsie’s! Brooke Bowman 28:30 so I’m up on the rooftop bar there. And I was talking to a young woman who was just out of school, like a year and a half out of school. And she her answer was four days a week. And I was like, Oh, interesting. So what do you do? Small animals as well. Like, I just assumed that was her part time job. And she had another one. And she like looked at me confused, and was like, No, I’m full time. Like, what, where? Where is this place? And it’s a practice up in Connecticut. And I’m the worst I forget the name of the place. So clearly, other people are handling this differently now. I mean, the writing’s on the wall, if we’re going to keep it like it is nobody wants to do it. So something needs to change. So going back to your question, I think a good place to start is helping one another. And the way we do that medicine where we’re all kind of competing, I mean, where in my area, there’s six or seven veterinarians just in my local area. And this conversation doesn’t really happen much. And I don’t see why it shouldn’t. When I know I’ve talked to these other people and they’re not having beautiful lives either. I mean, it looks like they are when you know you see how well their practices look like they’re doing and how they have to hire people to help themselves because they’re too busy. But then you have deeper conversations with them. And they’re having the same issues. I was like, I don’t see my kids, I got home and got a phone call right when I was getting ready to get out of my door, and I haven’t seen my year old son in three days, and I get home finally, and I get an emergency call, and I start bawling my eyes out. And the only reason they were talking to me is because I told them the same thing, you know, like, so why don’t we all just pick up some pieces for each other, and not try to undercut each other and go in and steal each other’s business. And we have been somewhat like, I just had a non paying client that I talked to all my friends around here, and they all agreed to not come in and do the work for the guy, which is usually what happens, you know, like, I got a non paying client. So he calls somebody else and somebody comes in and backdoors Me and does the work and gets paid so that they think it’s fine. Don’t understand where I’m coming from, you know, so maybe that’s a good step, like, just stand up for each other. Yeah. And we we all are starting to do that around here, for the most part, instead of just being harsh about these people that don’t pay their bills. And a lot of times it’s wealthy people, and you’re nervous to say anything. Look at that. There’s no reason to keep that hush anymore. Like screw that I’m not doing I’m not doing free work. I’d rather just not work. I could have like instead of working on that guy sources, I could have gone for a bike ride. Or, like, gone. Stacey Cordivano 31:30 Like you’re out the supply costs, right. So like, it’s not even a wash. It’s Unknown Speaker 31:36 like if you’re not working. Yeah. But for so long. For some reason, the equine thing. I mean, all the equine practices I know around here have outstanding balances that are massive. I mean, massive. And the small animal practices go and ask them how much outstanding balances they have. Zero. Stacey Cordivano 31:55 Yeah, right. They’d never let you in there. Unknown Speaker 31:57 Yeah, yeah, between zero and $500. And like, what are we doing as an industry? So why would anyone want to do it? You know, it’s like, we none of us stand up for ourselves. We let these people walk all over us. And then you wonder why that we’re not going to, like knock ourselves off. Because we don’t treat ourselves well at all. And that’s where it can all start like. So. I don’t know if I answered the question. But I think Stacey Cordivano 32:26 Well, no. Okay. I’m going to tell you what I heard from that. Because I heard a lot of good ideas. I heard forming emergency cooperatives in local areas. I heard alerting people about bad pay, like I think sharing that informations super helpful, because I might not know that they were so and so down the roads client, they just didn’t pay her. I heard better business practices, working on accounts receivable. I mean, imagine if you had all that money, you could actually pay your associates salaries better, right? Because then you can attract, we can attract yourself. Yeah, pay yourself. And I heard just more collaboration between people whether like, I don’t do something, so I send them to you. And we just don’t have the ego that we worry so much about people stealing clients. Oh, yeah. 100%. So I heard a lot of good answers in that response. I have to say like, it’s refreshing to hear, I don’t know, is this a generalization, maybe just like a male owner say that we need to make these changes. Because in the world that I work in, it’s, you know, often like female lead. And sometimes the hindrance comes from, like, this is the way things have always been done. So it’s nice to hear that there are other people in our industry thinking this way as well supporting these kinds of changes. So I’m glad that we got to chat for sure. Do you have anything else you want to leave listeners with? Unknown Speaker 33:58 I mean, I know this is kind of cliche, but like, if you’re dealing with something, you’re not the only one. And it can feel that way. And I know the feeling even though I mean people, like you said at the beginning of this, I’m from a privileged situation. But knowing that I am from a privileged situation, and I was still at that place is pretty cool to know for like somebody else that’s going through something similar. And there are answers and there are ways out of the hole. I never knew that. Like I never would have thought like I never knew how to get out of it. I just luckily everything came together at that time for me. I mean, even all the bad stuff. It was all blessings, like it all was so I’m still here and feel so much better. So like there’s ways to get out and even if it’s reaching out to you and getting my number and talking to me about it, like even if it’s just something as simple as that. I’ll talk to whoever. So that’s what I would leave people with. There’s a way. Even if it seems hard, Stacey Cordivano 35:01 that’s awesome. I totally agree. I think it is very powerful that you being who you are able to share your struggles and also come up with new creative ways to stay being equine vets, because that’s what this is all about. Right? Yeah, I asked all of my guests what is one small thing that has brought you joy this past week? Brooke Bowman 35:22 Um, my son and I went go kart racing on Saturday. And he was the fastest young kid there. And I set the fastest time of the month. So that was my good thing. Stacey Cordivano 35:36 That that previous career came in handy. Brooke Bowman 35:41 If you want to know what I think about on my spare time, it’s not horses. Stacey Cordivano 35:46 Yeah, actually, I didn’t comment on this in the beginning, but I thought it was really interesting that you made such a big deal about how much you love horses, though, because I think that’s also very relatable to most everybody listening probably. That’s why I’m doing it for them. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. And I will talk to you soon. Brooke Bowman 36:05 Absolutely. Thank you soon. I’ll have you on my podcast. Stacey Cordivano 36:08 Yeah, I think this is a great way to introduce your storytelling style to the podcast world. So thanks. Brooke Bowman 36:16 Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me on. Stacey Cordivano 36:21 Thanks again for listening today. I still very much appreciate the time you spend with me. I know it is so valuable. For more information or to sign up for our monthly newsletter. Please check out the newly revamped website at the whole veterinarian comm you can also connect with me on Instagram at the whole veterinarian. And lastly, if you have a spare moment, please leave a review on Apple podcasts if you’re enjoying the show, or share it with a friend. Thanks so much and I will talk to you again soon.